Talking to: CoN&KwAke

The jazz/hip hop duo CoN&KwAkE are the latest artists to release on Shabaka Hutching’s label Native Rebel Recordings, but neither are strangers to the London music scene. Con, otherwise known as Confucius MC, has been a major name in UK hip hop since the early noughties, and Kwake Bass is a producer and current or recent Musical Director for big names like Sampha, Kae Tempest and Nightmares on Wax, as well as the drummer of choice for, amongst others, MF DOOM and Lianne La Havas.

In CoN&KwAkE they both come together and create something alchemic and uniquely London-centric; a melding of classic hip hop firmly rooted in jazz. Their debut album Eyes in the Tower is due to be released on July 29th and showcases the unique abilities and history the two artists bring to the table, encompassing powerful lyricism, on-point production and freestyling saxophone, drums, piano and double bass.

Culture editor Kerry caught up with CoN&KwAkE and talked about their unique relationships with their home city, their musical journeys, the binds that tie jazz and hip hop together, and how the paranoia and anxiety of lockdown, the urge to nourish the beauty in the world that time created, and the concept of the panopticon shaped the themes behind Eyes in the Tower.

Tell us a bit more about yourselves and where you are and what you are doing at the moment.
CoN- I’m a rapper, poet and educator born and raised in South London. I’ve been writing and performing since my early teens and today I mainly work and perform within the UK Hip Hop scene, but I also move between different worlds. I spent big a chunk of my life working in a primary school in Lambeth sharing my passion for the power of creativity with young people, many of whom are now artists in their own right. I put out an album last year called Somewhere and I’m always working on new music.
KwAkE- At the moment I’m Musical Director for Tirzah and Nightmares on Wax and I’ve been heavily involved in growing The Room Studios in Lewisham.

Your lives and music are both very rooted in London - what is the music scene like there at the moment?
CoN- It’s always moving. There’s always a scene or movement that was at one time considered underground or niche now getting closer and closer to the mainstream. I think London’s been a big part of what's going on in the world of music for a long time and today it's just the same.
KwAkE- It's very busy and very much in a transitional period of having a lot more instrumental music become more popular, which I’m a big fan of, and also on an experimental level becoming more free.

What do your ‘personal’ Londons look like? Is it overall a positive relationship? How does it feel to you both as a place to move around and exist in? Has your relationship with the city changed as you’ve grown older and developed as artists?
CoN- As much as I always love London it’s definitely a bittersweet relationship with the city. London can be a hard place to thrive in and there’s a lot of extreme contrasts in existence living side by side in a lot of parts of the city. So at the same time as being aspirational it can also feel claustrophobic and the reality of survival in the city can be overwhelming. But when the sun is shining on Peckham Rye Park I'm not sure there’s any place I’d rather be.
KwAkE- My relationship with London can be very up and down. I’m very proud of my area and it’s a love/hate relationship, but you don't know what you’ve got til it's gone.

Tell us about your individual musical journeys so far.
CoN- I grew up in very musical household where everyone could play an instrument and music was constantly playing, so it was always gonna be a big part of my life. I fell in love with Hip Hop after I discovered the Wu-Tang Clan in my early teens and eventually started writing my own lyrics. From there I’ve predominantly worked in and around the UK Hip Hop scene and I’ve released two albums and two EPs, as well as too many features to mention.
KwAkE- My musical journey started when I was five. I started learning drums then stopped when I was fourteen to start experimenting more with electronic music. Then at the age of twenty one I started again as the drummer for a house band for an event called Speakers Corner and the band then became The Speakers Corner Quartet. That's also another project I've been working on for a long time.

How did you begin making music together?
CoN- I first met Kwake when I was seventeen through a mutual friend that was studying music with him at the BRIT School. We pretty much had an instant connection as friends and things just developed from there. We were part of a group in our late teens and when that broke away we formed CoN&KwAkE; it’s been a massive part of our personal lives as well as our creative journey.
KwAkE- I pretty much second all of that, we met at a house party through a mutual friend and the rest is history.

What do you both bring to CoN&KwAkE as individuals? In terms of influences and outlook as well as the nuts and bolts of the music-making.
CoN- For me Kwake brings a massive amount of knowledge to the table, whether that's from a creative standpoint or a technical one, in terms of how to execute the ideas. Kwake's all about being ingenuitive and pushing the boundaries.
KwAkE- I think Con brings, obviously, the words and the philosophy, and I bring the sonics and the technology. I guess you could say one of us is into football and one watches from the sidelines. One’s very stylish and one’s very rough; bun and cheese. It goes together, it just works.

Your album is heavily jazz-influenced, how do you think hip hop and jazz feed into each other, both in the past and at the present moment?
CoN- I think there’s obvious connections, both come from the same place and from artists facing similar situations in life even though they’re years apart. In a lot of cases both are a testament to the amazing creativity that can be born out of situations where people are placed under immense pressure and social oppression. Both contain a lot of power and a lot of information that can inspire people.
KwAkE- Jazz and Hip Hop go hand in hand. They chronologically came one after the other and we are merely a vessel merging these components into something that has been done before, but hasn't been done the way we've done it. And that's more than just the compositions; it's about the journeys growing as artists together, Shabaka [Shabaka Hutchings, Sons of Kemet and The Comet is Coming saxophonist] included, as one of our brothers to walk in a room and do what we did.

Who are your major influences?
MF DOOM, Wu-Tang, J Dilla, Aphex, Jon Bap, Chris Dave, Tube Digger, Mayon, drummer Bruce Ditmus, all things dub, Madlib, David Lynch, Bruce Lee, Stanley Kubrick.

For you personally, what has been the main achievement and /or highlight of your careers so far?
CoN- I’ve performed in lots of amazing venues with lots of incredible artists, but just releasing music and knowing that someone somewhere is listening. Also seeing people in an audience that know the words to the songs I think is a massive highlight for me.
KwAkE- Playing with MF DOOM, I’d have to say that.

Explain what experiences and ideas shaped Eyes in the Tower.
CoN- The title comes from some ideas I was introduced to when I was studying film at uni, in particular something called The Panopticon which raises a lot of questions about surveillance culture in the world today. We recorded the album in three days just after the second lockdown, so it's drawing on lots of the paranoia and anxiety of the time, but also about taking time to look for the beauty in life and take care of it. Something that a lot of us were reminded of during that time.

Do you have a stand out track on the album you are particularly proud of or have loved making?
CoN- It’s hard to say, I’m proud of everything on the album. It was all pretty special, but hearing Shabz play along to my verse on One in Five definitely takes things to a different dimension, I don’t think there’s anything quite like that out there.
KwAkE- The stand out track for me is One in Five because when you listen to the instrumental you suddenly have this sonic revelation. If you've only heard the song a few times you still get a sense of lyrical narrative with no words. Eyes in the Tower is a close second.

What other music / artists are exciting you at the moment?
Lea Sen, Jon Bap, Black Midi, Tirzah, Dean Blunt, Micachu, Kae Tempest, Coby Sey, Tone, Verbz, Joe Armon Jones; all part of the family but all killing it right now.

What is next for you? Both as CoN&KwAkE and as individual artists?
CoN- Once the album’s out, taking it on the road and gigging it is pretty much the next step. We’re working on the live show at the moment and looking forward to seeing how it develops. I’m also working on some new Confucius MC releases, so definitely lots of new music on the way.
KwAkE- Thinking about how we can expand the project into different mediums, for me next it’s Speaker's Corner Quartet, my clothing label DEM1NS as well as continuing the work I’m doing building The Room Studios.