Talking to: Peaches — The Everyday

Twenty years ago Canadian performance artist and musician Merrill Nisker, better known as Peaches, released her seminal debut album Teaches of Peaches. As well as paving the way for an explosion of electroclash dance-punk into the musical spotlight, the album was a gamechanger in other ways too. In an era when female sexuality was in the main still only put on public display for consumption by male audiences (and even then it was kept neat and sanitised), gender identity was still an underground concept and body shaming was ingrained in popular culture, Peaches unashamedly tackled these issues head-on, both in her music and on stage.

Her music and live stage performances have always played with traditional gender roles, subverted notions of how female and queer sexuality is presented in the public sphere and tackled misogyny in popular culture head-on. It is hard to picture how much of a gamechanger the release of Teaches of Peaches was considered from a 2022 vantage point, when gender fluidity is discussed over the breakfast table and women’s body hair is on display on TV adverts and social media. But at the time, a female artist unapologetically embracing her natural corporeality and sexuality and breaking out of the binary felt electrifyingly subversive. Over the last two decades, Peaches has become a true feminist and queer icon; her art, music and attitude influencing a whole new generation.

Four albums and many artistic projects later she is currently in the middle of the twentieth-anniversary tour of Teaches of Peaches, which has seen her play dates across the globe. Ahead of her UK dates culture editor Kerry Mead caught up with Peaches to ask her about Teaches of Peaches and how her relationship with the album has changed since its 2020 release. We also kicked back and talked about being back on tour, her influences and current artistic passions, the steps forward society has made in the last twenty years and what still needs to change.

How are you doing? How has the tour been going so far?

It's going really well, and it's very hectic; there’s a lot going on, a lot of people, and a lot of moving parts.

How does it feel to be back performing again after a break? Does it feel different?

Obviously, yes, it's great to be back after the pandemic, but it's also a different kind of tour in the way that it's an anniversary tour. It seems like more of a cultural moment tour, instead of trying to introduce a new album. People are feeling different; they’re feeling quite emotional about what this album has meant to them. I think that it is also influenced by time away for everybody with the pandemic, so not only is it a return to concerts, but it's also people's return, and mine too, to looking at the things that help them feel good about themselves. So it is a celebration of that, what The Teaches of Peaches did for people. There's a lot of emotion going on and there's a lot of elation; when I meet people individually there's a lot of real feelings happening, there's a lot of realness happening.

I must say, on a personal level, I am so looking forward to seeing you in Bristol next week for all of those reasons. I think it's going to be pretty emotional.

That's fantastic. I think that people are pandemically influenced and are much more vulnerable, you know? So they're not just like, "Arrrgh, I love this album!" … it hits harder now because they think about what they've just been going through.

It's been twenty years since The Teachings of Peaches came out. What's your relationship to the record now? Has it changed a lot?

I guess it has. It's funny, I had to do an interview for a magazine, they asked me to write a little blurb about each song and I was quite annoyed at first; I thought, “Oh god, journalists not doing their job!”. But then when I did it, I had so many revelations about the album. I realised there's the obvious things, what the overall arching themes are; empowerment and sexual freedom, body shaming, directness, but also, for me, I was going through a very, very prominent breakup and a cancer scare. Well, I did have cancer, but I didn’t have to do any chemo and I didn't have any physical ailments attached to it, but in your mind you think … ‘oh, cancer’; your life could be over at any moment. That dug in my head. Then I had to start my life over after my breakup but in the same city and then also there were friends moving away. I wasn't playing music with them with instruments so I bought this machine where I was just programming alone. It [the album] was really like self-help, how to not be about pity, how to not be a victim, how to change it around and help yourself; a ‘you can do it girl’ kind of attitude.

Also, it was about ‘What is the fucking state of music? Why do I sing along with lyrics that demean women when women are singing them and why do I sing along with lyrics that talk about having sex with underage girls, that it's okay?’. Saying ‘fuck you’ to old lyrics and things. So I thought, ‘let's restart and let's make our own universe; what we want, what I want, what I want to see’.

When I was doing these blurbs, I realised all those things too. Then I could really see this song is about questioning whether we really should have broken up, is it my fault? And also giving myself permission to say “Yes, I made a mistake, but that's fine, maybe this mistake is going to teach me”, or other ones about having new sexual experiences. When I looked at each song, I could really feel a more detailed understanding of all the things I was going through at that time.

I'd love to get your thoughts on some of the issues that you explored on The Teaches of Peaches. For example, the stance you take regarding ageism towards women is really inspirational. I know that you were only in your 30s when you released the album, but I think we all know that the music industry is a very ageist place and you weren't actually considered young, even at that age. Do you think that things have improved for older women in the last twenty years?

Yes, I do. I feel like it's become more mainstream; there's been more of a cultural shift. I mean, you see it in the roles in movies. In music, I don't think you see it as much as you do in film and in TV series. I love to cite the TV series Feud about Whatever Happened to Baby Jane with Joan Crawford and Bette Davis, and how they were rivals. So first of all, women weren't allowed to be friends, and they were considered washed up and old because they were forty? So Feud is the telling of that story. But that's so interesting because they make a story about it and also, it's played by Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon, who are actually in their 50s. So they are ten years older and are working so I feel like right there you can understand the cultural shift.

So, definitely, it's still a patriarchal world, it really is, but of course, there's a lot of changes and a lot of discussion now and that's exciting. There are a lot more women representing intersectional feminism; you have Shonda Rhimes, who is one of the biggest producers in Hollywood. Things are shifting for sure. That said, when things are shifting, then you get the mainstream cultural patriarchy holding on by their thin fingernails to the past, trying to grasp on. You just have to step on those fingers.

Yeah, that's a good thing to do, I like that. But I still think there's quite a few fingers that need stepping on.

Definitely.

But things are going in the right direction?

Well, they are and then they'll be fought and they'll just keep trying, you know? But ageism and body shaming and queer/trans issues are definitely being discussed more, but should not be discussed as other. They aren’t other, they are part of the mainstream, because these are people.

And then there's really damaging conservativism in the UK, and in America. There’s the damaging abortion bans and the issues for trans teens where they're not allowed medication or rights, or not allowed to play on sports teams. But these issues are in the media; when the cultural shift happens, of course, there's blowback, but it's still in the media. Also, all of those things are in the media in terms of cultural TV shows, like The Handmaid's Tale, which is super scary when you think how close it can be to what reality really is. Or just the way that they're showing characters in other TV shows; whether they want to or not, they have to show this intersectionalism. They might not get it right but it's going that way and then it’s up for more discussion, which brings it closer and closer instead of it not being there at all.

Do you think that there's a danger we could actually be going backwards with everything that's going on at the moment, like the abortion laws, like the kickback against trans rights?

You know, you guys have … I forget the name of the most horrible… there's a whole acronym for these women who are right-wing?

TERFS? Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists?

Yes, fucking TERFS. Fuck you. Fuck. You! That is so damaging, and that is a UK construction, there's like, conventions on that shit, there are politicians that are part of it!

It's great that you feel things have changed a lot since you released The Teaches of Peaches, but what else do you think needs to happen?

Just everything we've been talking about. We're just got to be on our toes and keep aware because the more things come into the mainstream, the more the conservatives will try and do deep dives or fake deep dives into whatever they can to convince people of their rhetoric and disinformation.

You always project a really vital image of being very comfortable in your body and with your body. Was that something you had to work hard at or did it always come naturally to you?

I think it was more of a progression and just getting comfortable with The Teaches of Peaches and what it was and it just organically progressed. I really wasn't like "let's take all my clothes off!" from the start. Somebody gave me a leather dildo early on, so I'm like, “I’ve got a song Shake Your Dick, I'm going to wear it!”. I didn't realise that those would become problems that would scare people, you know? To the point where when I was opening for a band in LA at The Palladium, after I played and used that dildo, there was discussion among the whole venue on whether to arrest me or not.

There was an attitude from some that the highly sexual, upfront and unapologetic stance you took towards women's sexuality and sexual politics in general was just for shock factor.

I didn't really think it was for shock, I was just trying to use my perspective. I wouldn't just say it's for women, I would say women-identified and also queer; like making a space, queerising. It sounds subversive, but to me, it's just inclusive, we're just including more people.

I completely agree with that. It's like taking a queer lens on the world, isn't it?

Yes, it's like a queer lens. To me, it's just opening up the lens of humans and letting people be who they need to be.

It’s evident from your live performances that performance art is definitely one of your fortes, and you're a director as well. How do you think these different strands of creativity; music, live art and film, feed into each other and influence each other?

They majorly influence each other. I mean, it all starts from music, because I feel like that is the grounding, and then it can go anywhere from there. So then it can have its visual elements and performative elements, and then the music can be deconstructed to fit whatever the performance needs, or it can enhance it. There's a lot of different ways to go and I have explored those ways extensively in all different forms.

You're often described as an icon; do you feel like one?

It's definitely flattering you know, but I think ‘icon’ is used a dime a dozen. People are called iconic or an icon in every episode of RuPaul’s Drag Race. Somebody wears an amazing outfit, “oh, it's iconic” or “oh, you've made an iconic moment”, it's all part of that sort of cultural reference. I think to call people an icon is just to say, “Bravo, you've done a good job”.

I see your point. I won't use the word icon again, but …

No, no I don't mind the word!

Okay, so who are your icons? As in your creative inspirations and the people you admire from way back when, but also the people that you think are really bossing it today?

Well, definitely, early early on, Annie Sprinkle with her post-porn; how she flipped it on its head and did it with a smile and was always really friendly about it, but also pushing female-identified sexuality forward. That was such a huge influence on me.

Musically, early on I loved Lil’ Kim and Missy Elliott’s production and Kraftwerk’s production. Daft Punk’s first album Homework made me realise how electronic and rock could work together. And PJ Harvey, I had this feeling when Is This Desire? came out she was going to go electronic'; it sparked me into thinking, “oh yes, let's all go electronic”. I also thought Elastica’s second album would be completely electronic, but these are constructs in my head that were where I was at. I really felt that they influenced me, but it was just something I heard in their music, you know?

Now, there's Florentino Holzinger; she's a performance artist making insane, over-the-top large productions that are completely dangerous. When I mean dangerous I mean women-identified people on stage with motorcycles and upside-down pianos and people falling down stairs constantly; just these powerful, powerful images, people on fire and people chainsawing wood on stage. It's just the most over-the-top, incredible performances that I think are culturally important right now. I was getting people tickets, just friends and artists, saying “you need to see this, you need to go here now”.

Peaches performing in 2016 By Levi Manchak - Peaches, CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=90199126

I know you’re in the middle of an anniversary tour, but what new projects are you working on at the moment?

I've developed a lot of new music, but I'd like to take a look at it after this tour and see how this tour will influence what's to come, in terms of understanding audience and performance from an experiential point of view again, instead of a theoretical view. I have a lot of things in mind, but I'm going to reevaluate them. There's definitely going to be new projects, in terms of staging performances or reevaluating how movement is done or technology. I have a residency starting in September for three months in Berlin at a place called Callie’s, so I will have a chance to reset and see what's up. I also used that space to help develop this tour of The Teaches of Peaches with all the new performers and musicians. It was a really great space to have to work with.

So you were very involved in the technical and practical sides of getting the aesthetic of this tour together?

It has to be my aesthetic or else it's not my show. I had a technical director Black Cracker who helped me a lot. He is a very incredible collaborator, in terms of creatively understanding what I want and how to get what I want. And then Charlie Le Mindu was the costume director; we looked together at all of my archival work. There's a really great article on the Forbes website if anyone wants to get the details on the archival costumes and how I used them for the show.

Peaches is touring Europe with The Teaches of Peaches Anniversary Tour throughout June and July, remaining dates in the UK include Glasgow, Manchester and Liverpool, and Bristol on Thursday16th June. Tickets and all the dates are here.

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