Talking to: Naz & Ella
© Poppy Marriot
Fusing a gritty, grunge-infused aura with traditional folk-inspired musicality, Naz & Ella channel their anger and frustration at the world through tightly wound harmonies and intricate guitar riffs. Their second EP (De)Humanise came out earlier in May, and explores subjects close to their hearts, such as the normalisation of sexual harassment in bars and clubs, internalised homophobia and the exotification of women of colour.
Ahead of their live stream performance for us on 1st July we caught up with Naz and Ella and talked about their influences, their place in the London female-led punk and post punk scene, podcasts, zines, and why they love exploring the socio-political in their music.
Firstly, tell us all about yourselves; where you are, how you started making music together.
Naz: We’re based in London, we’ve both lived in London pretty much our whole lives, and in terms of where we met, we actually met at school, it was really random! So we actually went to school locally, we both still live in the same area still, and I was starting a band at that time and I knew Ella played guitar and we luckily got sat next to each other in our English class and I just asked her.
Ella: I was really wanting to be in a band; I was looking online and trying to meet people in bands, I was only like 15 or something, so when Naz said she was starting a band it was just perfect! We both played together in a band in school and then went off and did our own thing, then we came back and play together now as a duo.
It's quite an acoustic and folky sound, quite stripped back, but recently we have thought we want to change up the sound. We have been listening to a lot of different artists, a lot of grunge and post punk; all sorts of things really, but we like the idea of combining our old folky sound with something a little bit thicker and maybe rock-y, but still quite delicate in a way. We've always liked to sing about topics that mean something to us, things that are going on in the world, you know, things that are important to talk about really.
What do you do in your everyday lives when you're not creating?
Naz: I’m working freelance for a sexual health organisation, my role is project managing a sexual health intervention for Black people and People of Colour. It's been a really interesting project to be involved with, because it involves a podcast, workshops, it's a really creative role. It’s the perfect project for me at the moment as it gives me time to work on music as well, which has been really great.
Ella: I work in marketing for a big agency in London. It's quite a flexible company when it comes to working from home and the hours are decent, so it's good for balancing between work and leaving time for everything else.
Naz: I think that has been the good thing about lock down and everything, being able to work from home has given us so much more time to work on music. It just felt like we were always rushing here, rushing there, doing gigs, with no time to actually sit down and de-stress…to just focus on writing.
Tell us a bit more about your musical upbringings. I know you met at school, but are you both from musical backgrounds and did either of you study music?
Ella: Well we both studied Music GCSE and did an A Level in Music Technology, but that's as far as it goes. We had two really lovely music teachers who were really supportive and we’re still in touch with one of them today. We were both involved in musical stuff at school, I had a few piano lessons and a few guitar lessons and you had a few as well Naz, so we've had bits and pieces, but we are both mainly just self taught.
Naz: It’s really weird because I always wanted to be involved in music and be in a band, but when I was younger I couldn’t play any instruments, but I was still determined to be in a “band”. I convinced my parents to let me have a guitar and then we started the band together.
Who were you both listening to growing up and who are you influenced by currently?
Naz: In terms of our influences, I feel that they have changed so much over the years. I feel like a few years ago I probably would have been influenced by people like Taylor Momsem, Florence Welch, and Amy Lee, definitely. When I saw Amy Lee for the first time on TV I was like; “oh my god I want to be Amy Lee”. I was in primary school at the time and I actually sang Bring Me to Life in assembly.
I guess today, and especially for this EP, I am quite inspired by Kate Bush. We were listening to a lot of her music and other bands like Nirvana, Alice in Chains, PJ Harvey and another band called A Perfect Circle.
It's really hard to say who our influences are because we listen to so much, but I would say I was very into Amy Winehouse when I was younger; I still listen to her now. I really liked Skunk Anansie. You know, you go through phases, I went through a definite phase of liking folk rock, like Bob Dylan. And today, First Aid Kit, and I’m quite into grunge, and I am really into Marika Hackman. She is my favourite current artist, I think she is so brilliantly musical and her songs are so different, really fresh.
We need to talk about your music now don’t we? Tell me about your new EP; how it has come to be and what the message is behind it?
Naz: So I guess at the end of 2019 we decided we wanted to change up our sound a bit, keeping with the kind of topics we like to talk about, and also just experiment a little bit more, and we decided we were going to write an EP, and then the pandemic happened. But we still did it and I guess it was a good thing because we got to sit down and experiment in ways we hadn’t had a chance to before.
Ella: I think a big part was the fact that we recorded it ourselves. We have a friend nearby who has a little studio and he has always done it with us in the past, which has been great, but we kind of liked the idea of learning how to do it ourselves. So we bought some equipment and recorded some demos and sent them to our friends to get feedback. That was really interesting because they would say things that don’t go the way you think they will. We picked the songs that people liked the most or the ones that we felt were the strongest, then recorded them ourselves, which was really fun, we experimented so much. I think that we learnt so much musically and it has been one of our biggest learning opportunities.
Naz: Definitely. We decided it’s always weird naming an EP, you can always choose one of the songs from the EP or come up with an entirely different name. One recurring theme in the songs we were writing was looking at humanity and specifically around being dehumanised and wanting to be humanised, so we ended up calling the EP (De)Humanise.
The first song we released is called Internalise, where we talk about internalised homophobia and overcoming that. The second single we released called No Doesn't Mean Convince Me, is about normalised sexual harassment in bars and clubs. The third song is called Exotica, which talks about the exotification of women of colour, and wanting to be seen as more than just your skin colour and culture to be consumed by people.
Then there’s We The Enemy which is about the hypocrisy of speciesism. Neither of us are full on vegans or anything, but we find it fascinating how we justify eating certain animals but then making other animals our friends.
Ella: When Naz got a cat she became a vegetarian and I think it's that idea of why is a cat so different from a cow when they are both sentient and both deserve to have good lives?
Naz: And it’s about the money aspect and the commodification of animals.
Ella: And the final song is a lot different, it is kind of like a relationship song. It's a really folky song; it's all acoustic, with piano and cello. It's not even personal to me, but I like the idea of a journey, so it's a song about two people who are together but one of them goes away and they have a long distance relationship, then the person comes back and they are no longer in love with each other, so its about them drifting apart but kind of accepting it.
Do you both find it easier to write about topical stuff or personal stuff? What sits easier with you, and what do you think is more important?
Naz: It's really difficult to say actually. In a way the more topical stuff, for example No and Exotica, those are quite topical issues but are also written from a personal perspective. I suppose some of our previous songs we have written about personal issues that don’t directly affect us. I personally find that much harder, so if I am going to write about something that is topical it will usually be from my perspective, as someone who is experiencing that particular thing. But for you it's a little different, isn't it Ella?
Ella: Yes, so we have kind of disagreed about that. We have a song which is about gun control in America, and we have a song which is about women's rights but based on a news story about a Saudi woman who was escaping because of the guardianship system over there. Obviously that doesn’t affect me but I wrote about it because I was shocked by it, I was following the story. We discussed whether we were comfortable writing about things that don’t directly impact us, but I like writing about things that I keep thinking about, that make me angry or shocked, whether that is personal or not. Occasionally you just want to write something that is removed from you, like Flux, I just thought, that's a nice story. Although I do draw upon places I have been, or feelings like missing someone, which I have experienced; there are always aspects of reality in there as well.
Naz: I think sometimes, when I go and sit down and write lyrics, I find I’ll be really depressing, self deprecating and sad, so sometimes it is really good to have a concrete topic, something socio-political to channel that energy into, rather than writing very, very sad emo songs!
© Poppy Marriot
You have been recording regular podcasts alongside making music as well. It would be great to hear more about your podcast and how it fits in with your music.
Naz: I’m a huge fan of podcasts! Ella, not so much, she’s a reader, I am more of a listener.
Ella: Although there is one we both love, called Song Exploder, which we really recommend. He [Hrishikesh Hirway] gets an artist on and they break down their track and what inspired it...
Naz: … The different production aspects that the listener doesn’t necessarily hear, but it kind of adds something. So we were really inspired by that, and thought well, we aren't going to get invited on to that one so let's just make our own one. We did it for one of the singles we released early last year, Freedom, and people actually listened to it, so we thought that was really cool. We thought, well, let’s actually make this a thing we do moving forward.
I always find it really interesting when artists, especially on our level, talk about their music, how they created it, what inspires them, so we decided to do that for the two singles we have released this year, and another episode will be coming out exploring the EP in more depth. We are hoping to bring on other artists on the scene that we are chatting with at the moment to talk about their songs as well.
Ella: I think it's just another way to let people know about our tracks and connect with other people; people who are interested in us as artists and would like to hear more about the tracks. We just want to give people a little bit more, something a bit extra.
Naz: We try and talk a little more about the issue the song is about at the start, then the production side of things.
You mentioned other artists on your scene; what is the music scene like where you are and where do you fit into it?
Ella: There’s actually quite a good women in punk music, kind of riot-grrl-esque scene in London, and Bristol actually, there are a lot of artists we like in Bristol.
Naz: Like Grandmas House, they are doing incredibly well at the moment.
Ella: So we kind of feel like we have got to know a lot of artists and people within that scene, it’s quite exciting to feel like there is a scene, because you know what it's like at the moment, with streaming and everything, everyone just listens to all sorts of stuff and maybe there is no such thing as music scenes any more.
Naz: There actually is a really good feminist punk DIY scene in London, but in terms of where we fit in, that’s a tricky one, and I think that’s also what has influenced our shift in sound as well.
Ella: Before we were a lot more folky, and with the folk scene we didn't really fit in; it was quite difficult because some people don't like stuff which is too contemporary, so I guess this naturally felt like a good shift
Naz: I sometimes worry that we are a bit too soft for the scene that we are in.
Ella: But we stick to the idea of actually making music we want to make, rather than just trying to fit in.
And it sounds like you have got the philosophy, which is what really counts, isn't it?
Naz: Yeah, we have.
If someone is in London and wants to delve into the female-led punk and post punk scene, where should they be heading? What is your favourite venue?
Ella: The Oslo in Hackney is a good one, we saw Dream Elves there, but there are so many venues dotted around.
Naz: In terms of finding gigs in London, there are a couple of organisations that put on really good gigs. Loud Women; they put on various gigs around London, and then Get In Her Ears.
Ella: Then there is DIY Space for London, they do loads of stuff and it is all really low cost. I did a workshop there, they put on a lot of stuff for people who really want to learn about music, and it's just a really cool community-led place.
What's coming up next for you two? You've got your EP done and dusted and out there, so what is next?
Naz: So once our EP is out we’ll be relaxing for a few days at least! Then gigging is the main thing…
Ella: We haven’t booked anything except for one, at Colchester Pride, which was booked two years ago then because of the pandemic we couldn’t play that.
Naz: We are hopefully looking to book gigs for later this year and next year. One thing we really want to do is an EP launch party.
Ella: To be honest, I have already started writing new songs, and I can’t wait to record some new songs!
Naz: Were moving in together with a little studio space so it's going to be really good for recording. We are also making our own zine.
Ella: Naz has got this really cool side project which is a zine, I am going to plug your zine now Naz!
Please do!
Naz: Separately I run a zine called Weirdo which is for people on the alternative scene who are of South Asian descent. I feel like on the alt scene black and brown people just aren't adequately represented, we don't see them enough. The next issue I am currently working on is the music issue, so we are looking at South Asian people across the music industry; musicians, journalists, etc. I've interviewed some quite famous people as well as people on the DIY scene.
Ella: So Naz is using her zine skills to help us create a zine!
Naz: I guess that it's an extension of our podcast as well, so it's going a bit deeper into our music, what our music means, handwritten lyrics, and just our thoughts on creating at home, creating our artwork. We've decided to concentrate on that more than doing CDs, for example.
Ella: We feel like people want some kind of souvenir when they come to a gig, and sometimes you give people CDs and you wonder if they are going to actually put it in something and listen to it, they probably want it more as a keepsake. So let’s actually create something that people can take away and read and look at, it kind of makes sense.
Naz: It's available now on our Bandcamp page and it will hopefully be available for as long as people are ordering it.
(De) Humanise and the Naz & Ella zine are available to order and download now on Bandcamp. Listen to Not Another DIY Music Podcast on Naz and Ella’s Soundcloud.
Follow Naz and Ella on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Their website is here.
Naz and Ella will be performing live on The Everyday Magazine’s Instagram account on Thursday 1st July.
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