Talking To: Lyssa Kay Adams
We interviewed the lovely Lyssa Kay Adams to talk about her book The Bromance Bookclub, the first in an amazing series. Lyssa spoke about all things from the research background of the book to the amazing response she got from across the community. Oh, and she tossed in a few marriage tips and lessons, and gave us all the giggles. If you want some escapism from the awful dating scene - pick up The Bromance Bookclub, but only after you’ve read our fab interview ;)
Can you give our readers a synopsis of The Bromance Bookclub?
Sure! It is about a major league baseball player here in the states, who wants to save his marriage. His friends have an unusual idea and they invite him into a secret book club with them and a few other men, who secretly read romance novels as they believe romance novels offer some real-life lessons on how to improve their relationships and be better human beings. The first book in the series follows Gavin and his wife Thea, the rest of the series picks up with a different main couple but many of the same secondary characters are there to make an appearance.
What inspired the book?
I always laugh when I tell the story. There has been a longstanding joke among cisgender heterosexual women that write romance that we really wish our partners would read these books too. They offer a lot of insight into what we see as an ideal relationship. Romance novels are based on and celebrate our internal lives. I had that idea in my head that it would be funny if there was a running idea in a book that there are a bunch of guys who read romance novels. But this book idea sat on the shelf for me. And then here in The States we had the 2016 presidential election and I was horrified by who was elected.
I think globally everyone was!
Exactly! But unfortunately not enough people in the United States, or else they wouldn't have voted for him. There was a moment right before the election when an audiotape was released where Donald Trump was interviewed, and it revealed some very disturbing comments he made, essentially about sexually assaulting women. A lot of women like myself found it to be a breaking point and it sparked the ‘me too’ movement. I needed a space in my head where men were good, and a place where they wouldn’t justify it as ‘locker room talk’ by saying “all men talk like that when they're together, but we don't believe it”. I wanted to create a world where men understood that was bad and were actively policing each other, and those two ideas combined. If there is absolutely only one thing we can thank Donald Trump for, it is that he created the Bromance Book Club.
I think what you’ve done is put what every single person on Booktok and Booktwitter wants in a book.
Hahaha, it's good to know.
Who is your favourite character?
That's such a tricky question, other authors have probably told you the same thing, it's like asking a mom who her favourite kid is. But whoever I am currently writing is usually my favourite. I would say the character I have the softest spot for is Vlad the Russian hockey player. He is such a good combination of sweet and sexy, and he's such an incredibly kind character. It was cathartic to write about such a kind man.
How long has the book been in the works?
The first book came out in 2019. It took me two years from when the idea collided, to when it got on the shelves. I'm on a yearly schedule, so you’ll be hearing more from me.
That's good, now I can binge read all of them! What made you choose Courting the Countess as the book for the Bromance Book Club?
The reason I chose a regency romance was for two reasons. I knew it would be the book that a male athlete who exists in a hyper toxic masculine world would be least likely to pick up in a bookstore. He would react much more humorously to the idea of it. Regency romances tend to be what non-romance readers make the most fun of, mostly because of the covers. This book is very much, and the series is very much, a love letter to the genre itself. This genre has a lot of social merit, literary merit, and emotional merit. The regency sub-genre of romance is the one people make fun of the most.
Gavin's reaction to the smut scene in the book was hilarious.
That was fun to write, and I laughed. I knew I had to have a scene where he almost gets caught reading it.
There are also bits where he quotes stuff to Thea, and she's like, ‘what?’
Haha, yes she thinks ‘where in the world did this come from?’
How did you find writing from two perspectives?
I really enjoyed that. I know in the past five years we have seen a real increase in the number of romance books written in the first perspective, but when I grew up what I read was exclusive dual perspectives, and that to me is how I enjoy reading and telling the stories. I enjoy writing from the male point of view, and I like exploring it too. I get a lot of comments from men saying ‘you really write men well’ and that's gratifying to me.
I think we see a lot of stuff when women say they only like men written by women. Because we know what we want.
Exactly. Part of what I enjoy about writing from a male point of view is that I want to show men and male readers what vulnerability looks like. There is this fear amongst cisgender heterosexual men that vulnerability is feared. But I want to show that vulnerability and emotional intelligence are the two sexiest traits a man can have.
That flows into my next question! The ‘bromance’ between the baseball boys themselves was amazing, and it was interesting to see men opening up to each other about their struggles within their relationships and other personal things. This is something they’re usually quite reluctant to do. What made you choose to create a bond like this, and did you hope to influence other men to be more open with each other?
Yeah, absolutely. I hope and am happy to see it has come true in some cases, that it would inspire men to approach their male friendships differently and be willing to have these kinds of emotional, vulnerable and personal conversations that women have with female friends. I have always felt sadness that at some age, usually young, boys start to emotionally pull away from their friends. They learn that male friendships aren't supposed to be based on emotional connection, the way female friendships are. We take away the ability for them to connect with their friends on a deeper level. I wanted to write about guys who demonstrated the importance of having those kinds of relationships with their friends. People they can turn to and be honest and vulnerable with and have hard convos with instead of keeping it inside or relying solely on female partners to be their romantic partners and also their therapists. I really enjoy writing about male friendships in a way we may only see female friendships being.
We see Gavin not getting the most accurate advice because he won't tell his friends the whole truth. Eventually he does, and it was good to see vulnerability being normalised amongst men.
That was so important to me, to normalise that, and that it's healthy to be with your friends. Opening up to people is such an important part of growth as a human being
We see how Thea’s childhood trauma from her parents’ marriage impacts her own marriage, and in some sense contributed to her marriage breakdown. Was there a reason you chose to explore this in the book?
You'll find that all my characters have some kind of trauma that has influenced who they are as adults, because I think that's really true to life. In real life we are the sum total of our experiences. They define our belief systems, how we react to things and how we do and dont trust. For Thea I had to give a believable reason for why she shouldn't want to be with a man who is essentially perfect. He’s an athlete, he's good looking, and he's a great dad. Who wouldn't want to be with him? I had to create a believable reason for her to be so emotionally distant from him, by exploring the impact of divorce.
I am a Gen X so I am the divorce generation, so many of my peers grew up with divorced parents, and it has an impact on you. I certainly drew from my own experience, my parents’ divorce was when I was very little, so I don't remember the specifics, but I remember what it was like to be the kid who went to their dad's house every other weekend. I knew that it was something people could relate to and it really does have an impact, even when your parents have a clean amicable divorce and they are good co-parents, and there is no real conflict. It still affects the way you think about relationships and trust and ourselves.
It was good to help people reflect on their own lives and understand.
I hope so. That's the great thing about romance novels, because they are so focused on the internal lives of characters you do see yourself so much more easily in the people you're reading about. It's such an honour when a reader messages and says something resonates with them; it means a lot to me. It's what we hope for as romance authors; that people will be able to see themselves in this world and this relationship and conflict to be able to see there is a way to work through things, there is hope on the horizon even when you've gone through trauma and hurtful things.
What was your favourite part about Gavin and Thea’s relationship?
One was that they are such good parents, they love their kids so much, and that natural parenting they have. I love writing those very simple domestic scenes like when Gavin makes pancakes and stuff. I liked that they tried to be good parents despite the conflict between them. A lot of parents can relate to this, and so many of us have had conflict in our relationships, but we figure it out for the sake of our children. The other things I liked writing about the two of them was how they rediscovered each other, and how they realised they needed to take the time to rediscover each other because the beginning of the relationship went fast. They haven’t had a lot of time to be together.
There’s a scene where they’ve made up, and they’re ‘doing it’ and there’s that awkward moment where one of their daughters knocks on the door. And afterwards, Gavin thinks to himself that nature is healing. Even though there is the awkwardness, there is the beauty of them becoming a normal family and having a better relationship.
The way he approaches the situation shows how much he is growing as a person, and he just really appreciates how lucky he is to have this family.
We see him grow a lot because he starts to think before he speaks to Thea so he says the right thing.
In some ways, he’s kind of an idiot sometimes, but he learns how to stop and think about his actions. Honestly, I think that's something real people have to go through, and not even at the beginning of a relationship but throughout. Sometimes you have to stop and think ‘how have we changed as people?’ and ‘are we still communicating effectively?’. I think that's really important for a successful relationship.
What kind of research did you do prior to writing the book? Did you interview people about their experiences? Read any blogs?
Yeah so, there was a whole set of research. Despite being married to a sportswriter, I still needed to research the world of major league baseball. I did not want to get that wrong. I have been very pleased with the number of people, including a baseball player, who said ‘wow, you must really know baseball’. I also had to do a lot of research on the way men are raised and the effect of hypermasculinity on men, how they communicate and how they approach relationships. There was an absolutely brilliant book I continue to rely on called For the Love of Men by Elizabeth Plank. It's a feminist book but from the perspective of how men are so negatively affected by patriarchal standards; how we raise men in a negative way that hurts them. I had to look at a lot of specific things, like little things like, can you turn right or left in a certain state? The weird things.
If the book was to be made into a movie, who would you cast as Gavin and Thea?
I get asked this so many times. What's so funny is that it has changed since the book came out. I originally envisioned him as a young goofier, more surfer dude kind of actor. Now, three years later, I picture him as a little older and wiser, physically I often picture Gavin as Scott Eastwood.
Oooo that’s a good one, *interviewer blushes at the thought*
For Thea, I'm guessing this show wasn't in the UK, It's called Hart of Dixie, I'm guessing not, it's very American, I would say Rachel Bilson from the show. She is kind of how I picture Thea, kind of petite, not tall, but very confident and has a powerful swagger to her when she gets back to herself.
What do you think the book taught you (and your readers) about marriage?
I certainly drew on my one marriage a lot, and what it's like to be married to someone. Most romance novels follow the couple at the beginning of their relationship, till their marriage. But The Bromance Book Club starts after that ‘happy ever after’. Sometimes it's pretty messy after the happy ever after. I pulled lessons from my own marriage about communication and many other things. There is something said to Gavin, that all humans are a work in progress, we are changing every single day and every single year. The person who you are when you marry is not going to be the same person in one year’s time or ten years' time or even twenty-five years' time. So much of the conflict stems from the fact that we are not all changing at the same pace. When you don’t constantly check in with each other that's where some of those fights start to surface. I hope that's the biggest lesson people take away from it.
I always tell people that even though your wedding day should be the happiest day in your life, it shouldn't be. I mean it's chaotic, and there's so much going on and you probably won't remember most of it. But what I mean is that you have to make sure every day after that is just as happy, you have to be ready to be married, not ready to get married. That's the lesson the book club tries to teach Gavin, that just because you were deliriously happy the day you got married or the day you found out she was having twins, doesn't mean you can rest on that happiness. You have to keep growing and find ways to be happy. You're not the same person you were on that day.
Our experiences shape us, but they also change us.
Yes, pretty much. I mean you're going to go through so much as a couple, good and bad. Things happen that you don't expect. If you are simply excited to get married, well it’s a lot different than being married.
Why do you think men should read romance books?
Well number 1, and there are many men that do read them, I think one of the things the romance genre does is that it does portray the daily lives of people and in a very intimate way. Often cisgender heterosexual men are told things are not for them; ‘that's for women’, ‘that's a chick flick’. But what they're not realising is love is universal, vulnerability is universal, respect in a relationship is genderless. I want men to learn what it looks like to be vulnerable and what it sounds like to be vulnerable. It does not detract from masculinity whatsoever. I don't think anyone would say Gavin loses his sexiness by becoming vulnerable with his wife or by being vulnerable with his friends and having these emotional connections. None of them lose their sexiness, and none of them lose their masculinity. I think a lot of men don't know how to do that though. Honestly, I think if they read romance novels they would start to see that modelled, and it’ll show how they can interact with other people in their lives. They don't get that model from pop culture, and they are taught from a young age that boys don't cry.
There was something in the book that I liked on page 54: ‘toxic masculinity permeates even the most mundane things in life. If masses of women like something, our society automatically begins to mock them. Just like romance novels. If women like them, they must be a joke, right?’ If men started to read romance novels, I think it would be a bit of a different story.
Exactly, I think if this genre had a literary stamp of approval by men it would be taken seriously. It's true of so many things in life. I mean take a pumpkin spice latte, for example, it annoys me every year when people mock them. I mean have you had one of those things?! They're good, why would you make fun of them? It’s literally a pumpkin pie in a cup. Why is it when women like something it is trivial? Or it’s not serious or worthy of praise? I do think the romance genre has been treated that way. Because it was labelled for women in its origin, somehow it was less than. One of the things I love the most since the book came out is the number of times a man will email me and say ‘okay my wife made me read this, and I actually really like this and can you recommend some more romance novels?’ Men actually like them when they start to read them, and it's almost eye-opening for them, and it's like they're mad because they've been left out and why didn't someone tell them they can't read these types of books?
On the topic of books that you recommend, what other books can you recommend?
I'm one of those people that has to break it down into categories. If you're new to romance and want a good baseline, I always recommend Tessa Dare if you want to be introduced to regencies, she is one of my top three authors and I read everything she writes. One of my favourites from her is called The Duchess Deal and I mean, talk about showing respectful relationships. I also love Alexa Martin, and she writes both romance and women's fiction. She had a women's fiction movie come out last year called Mom Jeans and Other Mistakes. My all time personal favourite is Susan Elizabeth Phillips, she is so funny. And she writes men who are not afraid to admit when they're being complete jerks.
What can we expect in the rest of the series?
The fourth book is out in the UK, and the fifth book follows a country music star, who you get to know in book 4, and he's this big goofy guy who rarely takes anything seriously. And in book 5 he really needs this match. He is used to women falling at his feet, but the heroine of the book is a serious immigration attorney, and she wants nothing to do with him. And she's like ‘no you're not what i'm looking for’ so he has to convince her. It's a Christmas book, and I always pitch it as if Christmas Carol met The Bromance Bookclub, and you have a very scrooge character and a very non-scrooge character. The other exciting thing I'm working on is Courting The Countess, I'm actually writing the book. It's going to become an actual book. My fake book is becoming a real book.
I think Gavin will be the first one to buy it!
Haha, exactly, we’re going to have to do promos with the guys. It's so fun, and I'm loving writing it.
Will you write more books in the future?
There is at least one more book in The Bromance Bookclub series, in 2024. After that I’m not quite sure, I’d love to keep writing in the bromance world. If the readers continue reading them, I will continue writing them. But there will always be more coming from me, no matter what.
That's good, that keeps me excited.
You can get a copy of The Bromance Bookclub here
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